Chairman, House of Representatives Committee on Justice, who is also the coordinator of members currently defecting from the All Progressives Congress to the Peoples Democratic Party, Mr Razak Atunwa, tells JOHN AMEH their action was taken in the best interest of Nigerians
No fewer than 37 members of the APC in the House of Representatives finally defected on Tuesday after months of speculations but you said Nigerians should expect more defections. What is actually happening?
Members of the APC, who defected both in the Senate and the House of Representatives on Tuesday, did so basically on certain principles and we expect in the next few days that there will be more defections from the party to the PDP.
The APC caucus, in its immediate reaction, said you had no basis to jubilate because you didn’t get the number that initially planned to defect. What is your reaction?
That just shows their lack of understanding of the issue. It shows to a great extent, their attitude to governance. It is not about numbers; it is not about whether someone forms a majority or not. At the heart of the defection, the common denominator is that we are fighting a battle for a better Nigeria. It is a battle that must be fought for children yet unborn. This government is a monumental failure; the APC is a cataclysmic disaster and it is on that basis that members, having agitated long and hard over the past three years, decided we could not continue to support this government. We cannot continue to be part of this party that is bringing this country down. Certainly, there is a great deal of threat to democracy coming from this government and so, we couldn’t fold our arms and watch what is going on. So, anyone, seeking to trivialise it, simply doesn’t have the right perspective to governance.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that the government has failed? What were the expectations back in 2015 that the government hasn’t met?
This government came into existence on two to three key fronts; it is so glaring to the country that it is a monumental failure on all fronts. Let’s look at them. We promised that we would fight corruption, improve the economy and follow the rule of law.
Clearly, on the anti-corruption front, this government has completely failed. On the economy, it is clear it has completely failed. Some people out there still want to argue whether or not it follows the rule of law, but again, in my view, it has failed in adhering to the rule of law. On corruption, whilst one of the things that made us to leave the PDP in 2014 was corruption, here, the graft being perpetuated by this APC government is even worse. It is corruption rolled up with coercion and threat, so that when corrupt practices are being discovered, there is a threat that if you speak out against them, you will be criminalised and you will be victimised.
On the economy, it has failed because if you ask the average Nigerian, is your life better now than before, they will say it is worse off.
Is mass defection the only option? Why didn’t you stay to give advice and find a solution together?
The mass defection wasn’t sudden. We have been crying out in the last three years and instead of doing something about it, we were branded as opposition. It is then they will remind us that we were not part of them initially, that we joined them from the PDP. That is not how to do things. We decided to act when we discovered that they were not listening to us. It is a decision that weighs heavily on our minds. It is one that we had to ponder upon. You don’t jump ship on the first opportunity; we pondered and pondered. And I gave the example that I remembered sitting on my own in a quiet moment ruminating about what was going on and the possible defection and I was reminded of Shakespeare’s Hamlet and I asked the question, to be or not to be? So, rather than stay with the so-called outrageous fortune of this government, I decided it is better for me to take arms against the sea of troubles no matter what they put on our way and end this calamitous government, end this impunity and end the misfortune that will befall Nigerians if this government continues unabated.
Some see the defection as being about self-interest. For instance, in many of the states, getting a return ticket is the issue. The governors have shut most of you out.
What is at the centre of this is the battle for a better Nigeria. It is a battle to save Nigeria from the threat to democracy which this government constitutes. In addition, obviously, there will be additional considerations for certain members but it is not the pivotal consideration. It is not a paramount consideration. There are members who are at odds with their governors. There are also some who have complained about injustice at the congresses. Some of these aggrieved members had not even defected to the PDP yet. For instance in Oyo State, when a properly conducted congress was done, the people who were elected to those various offices were those that the people wanted but the decision was overturned by one wave of the hand because they spoke to somebody at the national headquarters of the APC. That is a symptom of impunity. It is a symptom of what is going wrong with the party and with the government where you sit in Abuja, not listening to the people, and then do as you wish; that is a proclivity to impunity.
Would have defected if the same party you complained bitterly about had offered you automatic tickets to return in 2019?
They would still have left because they no longer hold that this government is the government that could sustain our democracy. They no longer hold that this government would improve on the lives of its citizenry; they no longer hold that this government can protect the lives and property of its citizens. From January 18 to date, over 2,000 people have been killed unnecessarily without any protection from this government, without any sign that it will be abated, without any sign that the government will do anything about it. So, they would have left. It is secondary whether they had political issues. But the reality is, even if that were to be resolved, most of them would still have gone because this government is not listening to anyone and that symbol of not listening to anyone is what transmits itself all the way to the state level.
So, members who defected didn’t take it lightly. It is a serious decision to take. They would still have defected. In Kwara State, for example, it is not about ticket; members had control of the party machinery. Are you saying Governor (Aminu) Tambuwal (of Sokoto State) is worried about ticket? Are you saying (Governor Samuel) Ortom is worried about his ticket? It is not about ticket nor is it about numbers; it is completely irrelevant. It is the principle that we were fighting for.
How far can this take you? Do you really have the capacity to mobilise and perhaps take over government in 2019?
As sure as night follows day, this movement has the capacity. Let there be no mistake about it because when campaign starts and each party and each set of people begin to put forward what they believe Nigeria can achieve and what they can achieve, then the difference will be clear. Thankfully, you have seen the APC in power and you have been able to assess whether or not they will be able to deliver what they said in 2019, yet they failed to deliver it in four years. It is nothing to write home about.
Are you worried that some of the senators, who defected, were at the Villa on Wednesday night holding a crucial meeting with the President?
Each person will take their own cause. I am not worried; they are free to talk to Mr. President any time they want. They are free to talk to anybody they want. There is nothing wrong in talking. There is nothing wrong in having a dialogue. When the Senate resumes, of course, the tally will be taken, who is in which party and who is where and then it will be clear.
Is it correct to tie some aspect of this defection to the fact that the Senate President has been under prosecution since 2015?
Not at all; it is far from it. He will bear his cross. He will deal with matters that will affect him personally to the extent that it is an assault on the office of the number three citizen, yet it is a concern to us. When the IG of police, because he is asked to come and answer questions about security, questions about protecting lives and property of Nigeria, would decide not to come. So, he is going to get his pound of flesh and decide to begin to harass the Senate President. Of course, we are concerned about that. I am sure the international community is concerned about it also. So, to that extent, it worries us because it is a threat, an existential threat to democracy. But to the extent that it is Dr Bukola Saraki, that is personal to him and he will deal with it in his own way.
Are you in any way worried that anti-graft agencies may be sent after you, based on the actions you have taken now?
I have nothing to worry about. I am speaking personally. I have no skeleton in my cupboard.
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